XD, Do you know how I picture these instances?

I picture a few people stood in a room, chatting politely about whatever the thread is about. They swirl wine in large glasses, Dave wears a monocle, and Gaz has a very large rennissiance wig. L's not wearing any pants, but is wearing full regal dinner wear above the waist. Everyones having a simply splashing time. And then Marks smashes through a window on a rope, with a combat knife between his teeth, and an AK under his arm, kicks over the nearest table. Kinto then explodes through a wall in a shower of debris, wielding a morningstar and a magnum, and then they engage in a battle of epic proportions. Everyone ducks under a table as the mayhem insues.. And then we all pop our heads up to find they've tumbled out the fire-exit door with a trail of broken glass and awesome in their wake.

I believe my original point was that all microtransaction games were terrible?



Yup, yup, that's right. And your counter point was that they make money?



Yeah!

And this doesn't actually prove me wrong in any way? And I asked you if you enjoyed any? And now you're saying whether or not you like them is irrelevent? Even though that's the only point I ever made?

You're a dummy

I lol'd

Games which make lots of money, enough to make large ripples in the markets in other continents, are inherently shit?

LOL OK

HE THINKS GOOD = MAKES THE MOST MONEY.

I think it's a shame but it is the mark of a good game. The goal at the beginning of producing a game is to make money. It isn't to break new ground or innovate, unless it generates a revenue to do so (creating new ideas isn't as cost effective as using old ones). Least amount of work to satisfy the most amount of people, to maximise profit is the mark of a good game unfortunately.

Good being a subjective term and only being used by the game's target demographic. For everyone else it should read successful.

For the record, I'm kinda with Kinto on this though - I believe games can be (and should be) more than just entertainment. Unfortunately, at this point in time they just aren't. They're entertainment for the masses and games which arent commercially successful are generally not regarded as pioneers of the medium. When was the last time you played a game which was massively awesome and innovative, clever and exciting, engaging .... and didnt make fuckloads of money? I remember reading that Modern Warfare 2 made similar profits to Avatar...

Games which make a loss generally have significant flaws.

edit: you seem to have misunderstoof the significance of the link, which was to highlight that your usage of the term 'good game' is highly subjective and therefore somewhat irrelevant, e.g. you think Halo is awesome, I dont.

I really can't agree with the notion that the mark of a good game is making money. The mark of a successful game, maybe. Saying a product is good, in any industry, is generally considered an appraisal of its quality, not its popularity. It doesn't really matter if that appraisal is subjective, what it applies to should remain the same. Kind of a boring semantical thing, but whatever!



Back up! I think most games struggle to be just entertainment, and should only realistically try to be an entertaining experience. Expecting art (or whatever the hell comes above entertainment but below art) is rather unfair to most creative people! Actual, FOR REAL art is really really really hard to do!

Back on topic, I seriously debate whether Korean microtransaction games qualify as decent entertainment. On the grounds that, for it to be a viable business for them, they would have to sell non-trivial elements of the game. But making non-trivial elements of the game available for purchase tends to either trivialise the game as a whole, or make it impossible to get any enjoyment out of them for free, so you end up being nickel and dimed for enternity trying to buy a complete experience that, if they're remotely intelligent about it, will be designed to never come.

And I don't like Halo that much! I just think it was deserving of it's success. Better Halo than God of War, I say!